I loved what you wrote Soren. I'm surprised that people's feelings were hurt, but then again, I'm not. There are always two sides, always. People are given a narrative from media and they don't necessarily look beyond that. This was not a shock at all. Nothing condones the violence though. It is horror. As is what has gone before that from both sides. I felt that you were trying to provide a different offering to the anger, and divisiveness. And this is what is needed at the moment, as always. A space for contemplation and community. Without sounding trite, love and understanding are always the more powerful force. Love what you offer in your writing. Keep doing it. You will never keep everyone happy. Jo 🙏
Soren, I thought your response of the invitation to sit together with this was beautiful. After our daily Pandemic meditations with JKZ, I too feel the sanity resides with each individual who chooses to shine a light stronger than our shadow. I do not think we can rely on news, governments, geopolitical leaders, to help us move forward with what feels to me like a collective “ spiritual crisis” which is causing so much pain and suffering. I too am truly sorry if my comment offends anyone. As many folks, I have my own strong views and alliances, but I know they are not the solution to the devastating problems.
I too agree with you, “ would like to think that there is a way we as humans can come together when there is conflict (regardless of what governments are doing)”
Soren, you have nothing to apologise for. Your words were grounded in compassion for all and very much in the sprit of Thay's teachings. Anyone who chose to take offense can consult, contest and look deeply into dozens of Thich Nhat Hanh's books. Thay's teaching are of particular relevance at this time as he and his people also suffered greatly for decades at the hands of internal and exernal forces of violence.
I felt your original invitation was non confrontational and judgement free, and I appreciate that.
For many, the pain of hurt, anger and sadness create a shield to protect their vulnerability and anything that tries to pierce their shield will be met with hostility.
I’m sure you’re not taking it personally, but I recognize you’re trying to connect an anciently divided group and do so with as much love and kindness as possible. I think you’re doing great, by the way!!
Sending you love while you hold space for those who are in pain. 🤍
Calling for peace, even in small seemingly insignificant ways, will always be unpopular after a brutal act of war. Of course you'll be berated with viscous criticism, but it looks to me like you're doing the right thing. I even appreciate the apology you posted, but I'd hate to see you act against what you know is right after getting push back online.
Thank you, Soren. Someone had to remind us that, "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field." Thank you for inviting us to meet in the field where we can blamelessly share our grief for the suffering of the world.
Wisdom is surely being informed, nuanced and compassionate. We need more thoughtful proposals like yours, not fewer. A historical sweep of injustices to both sides casts a long and tragic shadow. Surely there is a better way. It takes courage to speak up, and I and many others are with you.
Dear Soren, I want to express how much your approach to this is needed and valued. And how much I appreciate your emails. I know my colleague does also because we talk about how important your stories and ideas are in our thinking/week. You highlight such important values in such a human way., with humility and offer us all learning, no matter where we are on our journey of awareness. I also appreciate how you are consistently showing us that you are open to vulnerability, making mis-takes and learning. Your courage and fearlessness in the face of fear and oppression/power dyanmics I greatly value and appreciate and I need this. Keep on doing what you are being for us all please. With gratitude, Maret
Beautifully written and I’m sure wonderful intentions behind the remarks. Unfortunately, I think it is almost impossible to comprehend or feel what people directly affected are experiencing unless you are one of them. Maybe the timing for this message is a bit off. Almost like telling a mother after just losing a child to murder, that your thoughts are with the child, the mother and the perpetrator who is also suffering. You maybe right but to mention your thoughts to the victim is in my opinion a misplaced truth that may increase their suffering.
I think this sums it up well. It’s very delicate how to chime in after such a tragedy and not come across with a kind of seeming “high indifference” from a spiritual standpoint when the reality is there is such immense suffering and an immediate painful act. I would also add that Thay himself said that when he first heard about the rape mentioned in “Call me by my true names” his reaction was not to write the poem. It was great anger. Only after experiencing and validating that anger was he able to look more deeply and see the unity of the situation. So it can be tempting to go right from horror and shock to compassion and unity but the fact is when such a violation occurs it’s entirely reasonable and human, even spiritual, to feel and acknowledge anger. Jesus got angry. He didn’t go into a church and kick over tables because he was trying to both sides the situation. But he didn’t give in to hatred. And that’s where the danger lies.
Not doubting Soren’s original intent and message. It’s difficult to speak about such horrors in a way which doesn’t come across as tone deaf or invalidating, or inflame the tensions further. I appreciate the apology because it’s an admission of humanness and that these things are inherently difficult to get right. Thank you soren for both messages.
I would add another thing too that it’s not for me to invalidate the experience of anyone who feels very righteously angry right now. It’s easy for me to sit on a meditation cushion and see my oneness with war criminals and murderers knowing that I have those elements in me as well. But it’s very different if it were my girlfriend being carried off by a gang of terrorists. Yes. It’s dualistic language and ultimately, the ones carrying her off and I are the same. But in that moment my human experience is likely to be tremendous anger and pain. And I can’t bypass that to go right to the compassion. Nor should that stop me from defending myself or my loved ones if needed.
Without needing to take sides? Sure, after seeing Hamas rape women next to the warm bodies of freshly killed family and friends, then parade them half naked with blood streaming down their legs. Why would I presume to take sides? Nope, I'm taking a side, the side of the murdered and raped, then put on social media for all to applaud. Nice try. I guess I'm just not that enlightened.
I thought your tone and words were true, and looking to Thich Nhat Hanh is a perfect (in my mind) source. Peace, listening and compassion are the tools we need now. thank you.
I loved what you wrote Soren. I'm surprised that people's feelings were hurt, but then again, I'm not. There are always two sides, always. People are given a narrative from media and they don't necessarily look beyond that. This was not a shock at all. Nothing condones the violence though. It is horror. As is what has gone before that from both sides. I felt that you were trying to provide a different offering to the anger, and divisiveness. And this is what is needed at the moment, as always. A space for contemplation and community. Without sounding trite, love and understanding are always the more powerful force. Love what you offer in your writing. Keep doing it. You will never keep everyone happy. Jo 🙏
Soren, I thought your response of the invitation to sit together with this was beautiful. After our daily Pandemic meditations with JKZ, I too feel the sanity resides with each individual who chooses to shine a light stronger than our shadow. I do not think we can rely on news, governments, geopolitical leaders, to help us move forward with what feels to me like a collective “ spiritual crisis” which is causing so much pain and suffering. I too am truly sorry if my comment offends anyone. As many folks, I have my own strong views and alliances, but I know they are not the solution to the devastating problems.
I too agree with you, “ would like to think that there is a way we as humans can come together when there is conflict (regardless of what governments are doing)”
Thank you for doing this. Namaste!
I find it absurd that you got negative feedback from posting the poem. Wow.
I am an 82 year old Jewish woman. I believe we must have compassion for all beings or we are doomed. Bless you. 🙏
Soren, you have nothing to apologise for. Your words were grounded in compassion for all and very much in the sprit of Thay's teachings. Anyone who chose to take offense can consult, contest and look deeply into dozens of Thich Nhat Hanh's books. Thay's teaching are of particular relevance at this time as he and his people also suffered greatly for decades at the hands of internal and exernal forces of violence.
I think it’s a very hopeful idea. I feel it is a way forward.
I felt your original invitation was non confrontational and judgement free, and I appreciate that.
For many, the pain of hurt, anger and sadness create a shield to protect their vulnerability and anything that tries to pierce their shield will be met with hostility.
I’m sure you’re not taking it personally, but I recognize you’re trying to connect an anciently divided group and do so with as much love and kindness as possible. I think you’re doing great, by the way!!
Sending you love while you hold space for those who are in pain. 🤍
So beautifully said.
Soren, I loved your post and invitation, and am looking at how I can rearrange my schedule to be at one of the zoom events. I'm with you!
Theresa
Calling for peace, even in small seemingly insignificant ways, will always be unpopular after a brutal act of war. Of course you'll be berated with viscous criticism, but it looks to me like you're doing the right thing. I even appreciate the apology you posted, but I'd hate to see you act against what you know is right after getting push back online.
Hi Soren this poem is what we need. There is no other way. Thank you
Thank you, Soren. Someone had to remind us that, "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field." Thank you for inviting us to meet in the field where we can blamelessly share our grief for the suffering of the world.
Wisdom is surely being informed, nuanced and compassionate. We need more thoughtful proposals like yours, not fewer. A historical sweep of injustices to both sides casts a long and tragic shadow. Surely there is a better way. It takes courage to speak up, and I and many others are with you.
Dear Soren, I want to express how much your approach to this is needed and valued. And how much I appreciate your emails. I know my colleague does also because we talk about how important your stories and ideas are in our thinking/week. You highlight such important values in such a human way., with humility and offer us all learning, no matter where we are on our journey of awareness. I also appreciate how you are consistently showing us that you are open to vulnerability, making mis-takes and learning. Your courage and fearlessness in the face of fear and oppression/power dyanmics I greatly value and appreciate and I need this. Keep on doing what you are being for us all please. With gratitude, Maret
Beautifully written and I’m sure wonderful intentions behind the remarks. Unfortunately, I think it is almost impossible to comprehend or feel what people directly affected are experiencing unless you are one of them. Maybe the timing for this message is a bit off. Almost like telling a mother after just losing a child to murder, that your thoughts are with the child, the mother and the perpetrator who is also suffering. You maybe right but to mention your thoughts to the victim is in my opinion a misplaced truth that may increase their suffering.
I think this sums it up well. It’s very delicate how to chime in after such a tragedy and not come across with a kind of seeming “high indifference” from a spiritual standpoint when the reality is there is such immense suffering and an immediate painful act. I would also add that Thay himself said that when he first heard about the rape mentioned in “Call me by my true names” his reaction was not to write the poem. It was great anger. Only after experiencing and validating that anger was he able to look more deeply and see the unity of the situation. So it can be tempting to go right from horror and shock to compassion and unity but the fact is when such a violation occurs it’s entirely reasonable and human, even spiritual, to feel and acknowledge anger. Jesus got angry. He didn’t go into a church and kick over tables because he was trying to both sides the situation. But he didn’t give in to hatred. And that’s where the danger lies.
Not doubting Soren’s original intent and message. It’s difficult to speak about such horrors in a way which doesn’t come across as tone deaf or invalidating, or inflame the tensions further. I appreciate the apology because it’s an admission of humanness and that these things are inherently difficult to get right. Thank you soren for both messages.
I would add another thing too that it’s not for me to invalidate the experience of anyone who feels very righteously angry right now. It’s easy for me to sit on a meditation cushion and see my oneness with war criminals and murderers knowing that I have those elements in me as well. But it’s very different if it were my girlfriend being carried off by a gang of terrorists. Yes. It’s dualistic language and ultimately, the ones carrying her off and I are the same. But in that moment my human experience is likely to be tremendous anger and pain. And I can’t bypass that to go right to the compassion. Nor should that stop me from defending myself or my loved ones if needed.
So much pain. ♥️🙏 I pray for us all.
Without needing to take sides? Sure, after seeing Hamas rape women next to the warm bodies of freshly killed family and friends, then parade them half naked with blood streaming down their legs. Why would I presume to take sides? Nope, I'm taking a side, the side of the murdered and raped, then put on social media for all to applaud. Nice try. I guess I'm just not that enlightened.
I thought your tone and words were true, and looking to Thich Nhat Hanh is a perfect (in my mind) source. Peace, listening and compassion are the tools we need now. thank you.